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Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

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Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

Postby billy guns on Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:30 pm

Guys n Gas time to turn the page
Well another season in the books, in fact now back-to-back losing seasons after three great winning seasons.
Attendance was well down, it seems the fan base is quite angry after the 98 win season and management sat on their collective asses and did nothing to really improve the team. Therefore, we now have the two consecutive losing seasons.
We did pick up Felipe Rivero in the Mellancon trade in2015. It appears He is now one of the top 3 relievers in Baseball. Josh Bell had a breakout year at first base (he can only get better). Adam Frazier was a bright spot as well as the very young pitching staff especially Taillon. I would’ve thought by now we would’ve seen similar breakout years for Marte and Polanco. Post drug suspension – Marte has regressed and from all indications stunk up the Dominican Winter League. Cole and McCutcheon are probably gone. Cole sooner than later probably to the Yankees. Huntington – is wanting the world for Cole and you cannot blame him. Lots of mixed news. The real good news is the bucs have 3 or 4 very strong arms ready to start their major league careers.
I’m assuming Cole is gone and I think the National League has figured out Ivan Nova. So bring up two of the young studs and throw them into the mix day one. It appears Kang is no longer a viable option at 3rd base. The bucs need to find a 3rd baseman unless they move Harrison to third and play Frazier at Second. They also need more production from the Catcher’s position. Cervelli was a waste last year with all his injuries. So do you play Diaz????
So where does that leave us for 2018
I’m thinking 78 wins unless Marte and Polanco both give us Josh Bell type seasons, Cervelli rebounds completely and the young pitchers outperform.
This for me is an objective view – I’m Not getting into the ownership spending issues etc. For me simply I think the Pirates need to be at $120,000 base salary – end of story to really compete.
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Re: Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

Postby BamBam on Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:00 pm

Ok here's my take. Cole has not lived up to the hype, other than that one year. I know he didn't get a lot of run support in a lot of his games. I think he is so competitive that he rattles himself and gets way out of sync. The great one compartmentalize the game around them. Kang is an afterthought. Polanco took a step back last year but he is still a baby. Marte missed 80 games so I would like to see a full year and see f he can rebound. Cervelli needs to pass the mantle to Diaz and lets see if this kid will flourish. I think he's a better catcher defensively and offensively. Cutch will be here. I'm not sure anyone takes his contract for his stats. The one I hear that other teams are interested is JHay. Def put him back to 3rd and Frazier at 2nd. Keep in mind that Frazier tailed way off at the end. Curious as to whether he can keep up a pace for a full season. Bell will be a beast. Taillon should be fine. Nova I think will be fine. Bringing up young arms too soon could be a mistake. Dominating in AAA is nothing compared to MLB hitters. Just ask Glasnow. Pitching is such a psychological position. Rivero will be fine. My concern is middle relievers. The one I worry about is Hurdle. I like him but I do scratch my head at some moves he makes in game. Too early to make a prediction. Either way the best we attain will be 3rd in division unless the pitching dominates and a few find their bats.

Btw, great subject I'm glad somebody brought it up ;)

Oh and I hope you accidentally missed a 0 in your base salary.
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Re: Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

Postby Steelers69 on Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:06 pm

billy guns wrote:Guys n Gals time to turn the page


This for me is an objective view – I’m Not getting into the ownership spending issues etc. For me simply I think the Pirates need to be at $120,000 base salary – end of story to really compete.


120,000 isn't asking for much and Think Nutting would love to be that low :lol:
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Re: Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

Postby billy guns on Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:42 pm

[quote="BamBam"]Ok here's my take. Cole has not lived up to the hype, other than that one year. I know he didn't get a lot of run support in a lot of his games. I think he is so competitive that he rattles himself and gets way out of sync. The great one compartmentalize the game around them. Kang is an afterthought. Polanco took a step back last year but he is still a baby. Marte missed 80 games so I would like to see a full year and see f he can rebound. Cervelli needs to pass the mantle to Diaz and lets see if this kid will flourish. I think he's a better catcher defensively and offensively. Cutch will be here. I'm not sure anyone takes his contract for his stats. The one I hear that other teams are interested is JHay. Def put him back to 3rd and Frazier at 2nd. Keep in mind that Frazier tailed way off at the end. Curious as to whether he can keep up a pace for a full season. Bell will be a beast. Taillon should be fine. Nova I think will be fine. Bringing up young arms too soon could be a mistake. Dominating in AAA is nothing compared to MLB hitters. Just ask Glasnow. Pitching is such a psychological position. Rivero will be fine. My concern is middle relievers. The one I worry about is Hurdle. I like him but I do scratch my head at some moves he makes in game. Too early to make a prediction. Either way the best we attain will be 3rd in division unless the pitching dominates and a few find their bats.

Btw, great subject I'm glad somebody brought it up ;)

Oh and I hope you accidentally missed a 0 in your base salary.[/quote
Nova is a concern for me
And agree on Frazier — his production weakened the more he played
The stud pitchers they sent to Arizona league dominated
If they indeed trade Cole bring one up and let’s go
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Re: Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

Postby Ausse Salt on Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:32 am

... Actually, BOTH o' you blokes make some
good sense with yer views.

WHY the management always crys "Poor-mouth"
when it comes to the simple costs of fielding a
competitive side is beyonde me.

... If ya cannot afford to operate the
business of baseball - then SELL THE TEAM!

### Salty
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Re: Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

Postby BamBam on Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:19 am

Ok Salty couple of points.

The bloke that owns the team is making a nice profit so why would he sell?

2nd, there is no simple cost of fielding a competitive team. Keep in mind a so-so pitcher is going to run you $10 mil.

Saying the Pirates can't compete because of their payroll is easy to point out, but KC which is a somilar size market has won the World Series. The problem isn't just payroll, its also finding real talent that you don't have to take a second mortgage out on. I don't care how great a guy is in AAA, that doesn't always carry over to the majors. Its is a educated crap shoot. There is only 2 teams the Bucs need to beat and thats the cards and cubbys.
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Re: Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

Postby Felix Leiter on Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:59 am

I was at Piratefest and the brain trust said they didn't want to be like Kansas City won the series and are now rebuilding. Fuck I'll take a world series win even if it means bad teams for a while after. It's better than the close to 40 years in the wilderness we have been. Except for Cleveland we are now the team with the longest championship drought. Fuck the Marlins won twice and blew it up afterwards I'll take that model too. What we're doing isn't working.
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Re: Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

Postby Steelers69 on Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:01 am

Look what Derek Jeter did to the Marlins :shock: He really fucked the fan base over and made the Yankees a favorite for the WS. He fired LONG time Ex Marlins and scouts in the front office. Back to the Pirates owners got 5o million from the national TV Contract and that doesn't count what the small markets will get from the teams that spent over the luxury tax. That will pay payroll and he doesn't even have to spend 1 dollar of his own money. I would trade Cole to Yankees and make them take Nova back if they want Cole, Cole is a head case. Don't get me wrong when he is on he's on and when he lets a Hr or non call get to him he lets it affect him and explodes.
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Re: Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

Postby billy guns on Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:45 pm

it may still happen - but mid-late December I thought for sure the Pirate were moving Cole to the Yanks. I think Huntington wanted too much in return. The yanks were NOT giving up either of their top two prospects. I would have pulled the Trigger if they gave us Adam Frazier and one of their younger Pitchers. I like Cole - he is a competitor - but has never lived up to his billing as the "ace of the staff." I think Taillon will assume that role in '18 .
Does anybody know what happened to Nate Kingham? - - a scouting group recently listed the top 25 prospects for the Buccos and he was no where to be found - -
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Re: Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

Postby BamBam on Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:58 pm

Apparently he's not in the top 25 anymore. I hate the term "rebuilding". Rebuilding for what?? The problem I have with my beloved Bucs is that they get into a rebuild mode so these players are good enough to go to teams like Yankmees, Dodgers, Etc. I would rather throw all in for 1 or 2 seasons and make a real run and have to wait another 5 or 6 to do it again, than this death by a thousand cuts that Nutting seems to like.

I love baseball but until there is a salary cap, this will be a topic every season for at least 20 teams. I personally think that there are too many teams and it thins out the talent too much. Thats why you see shit players getting 8 figures a season. Also ban the fuckin DH, what a turd concept.
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Re: Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

Postby Josie Wales on Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:47 pm

They should have went all in in 2015. They had 98 wins and was only good for a WC. They needed to win the division. A lot of experts thought they could win it all that year. So did I. I know a guy that works for them. All departments had to cut their budgets 15% this year. He doesn’t think this year will be any different than last year. I agree.
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Re: Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

Postby billy guns on Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:09 pm

BamBam wrote:Apparently he's not in the top 25 anymore. I hate the term "rebuilding". Rebuilding for what?? The problem I have with my beloved Bucs is that they get into a rebuild mode so these players are good enough to go to teams like Yankmees, Dodgers, Etc. I would rather throw all in for 1 or 2 seasons and make a real run and have to wait another 5 or 6 to do it again, than this death by a thousand cuts that Nutting seems to like.

I love baseball but until there is a salary cap, this will be a topic every season for at least 20 teams. I personally think that there are too many teams and it thins out the talent too much. Thats why you see shit players getting 8 figures a season. Also ban the fuckin DH, what a turd concept.


i agree on the 'rebuilding' -- what rebuilding from a 98 win team two years ago? - - -the following year should've been all in to win. My view on trading Cole is not for a rebuild but a talent upgrade. Cole has one dominant season - and the rest have been pedestrian at best.
That frazier kid is supposed to be a really good talent.

There may be too many teams - but specialization has also thinned out the talent base. You got righty and left relief pitchers. Also, because of the contract scale - starting pitchers go mainly 5 innings to protect their arms - so now you have an entire career for middle range relievers. Of course the DH allows 15 guys that cannot play defense - make multi-million dollar contracts to hit Home runs - - that really Sucks !!!!!
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Re: Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

Postby Steelers69 on Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:51 pm

KC offered Hosmer 7 years 147, I'm sick of Pirate fans crying small market. Teams are getting 50 million from the National TV contract this season and that isn't counting the money the Pirates will get from teams that went over the MLB luxury tax and looks like he won't have to spend 1 dollar out of his pocket this season. Fans have to stop going to the stadium and making him richer because he WILL NEVER spend the money to get that WS ring. Hell he won't even spend over the 100 million dollar. If he would just spend around 125 million he could compete for the division and maybe win it instead of the 1 game WC. If Cleveland and KC and Detroit can spend well above the 125 then why can't he?
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Re: Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

Postby billy guns on Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:14 pm

Steelers69 wrote:KC offered Hosmer 7 years 147, I'm sick of Pirate fans crying small market. Teams are getting 50 million from the National TV contract this season and that isn't counting the money the Pirates will get from teams that went over the MLB luxury tax and looks like he won't have to spend 1 dollar out of his pocket this season. Fans have to stop going to the stadium and making him richer because he WILL NEVER spend the money to get that WS ring. Hell he won't even spend over the 100 million dollar. If he would just spend around 125 million he could compete for the division and maybe win it instead of the 1 game WC. If Cleveland and KC and Detroit can spend well above the 125 then why can't he?


i've always said $125 million should be the Pirates salary threshold. That being said - where do you want them to spend the $$$. I am being serious - I follow baseball and never heard of Hosmer - had two back to back years of 25 HR and gets offered $21 million that is just fucking ludicrous -- that's why i'm asking - - for the Pirates to get that right - to me there are probably 3 or 4 max that I would offer that kind of money
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Re: Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

Postby hard24get on Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:09 pm

Pirates need to make Taillon the No.1 starter. If he can avoid injury and illness, I think he is the real deal. Trade Cole for a serious batter, because offense is a problem here. Make it a young batter that may be able to step in and play. J-Hay at 3rd, Frazier at 2nd, Diaz at catcher, with the usual suspects and it is a decent line-up. The team is paying the price for rushing Polanco to the majors. He had work to do, in the field, at bat, between his ears, etc. They did the same thing with Pedro and he imploded. ((He was lazy, too. Don't argue with me about it. He did not want it bad enough and he had a hole in his swing.) Let the young pitchers take over, buy/trade for a couple of bullpen types if necessary after giving the kids a chance, and see what happens. The money issue is a losing argument because the team can ONLY grow its own No. 1 starter because they will never pay the $25-30 M for the real thing. Nothing else to say. Any other pitcher you can obtain for $10M or so is a journeyman nowadays so why spend there? Pitchers get hurt too often to do it any other way. And as for position players, you have to spend a lot to get a lot and I am not talking about $2M here, either. Lastly, pay McCutcheon. Without him you have no chance and with him you have a National face of the franchise. Who was invited to represent the Pirates at the Patriot/Steeler get together at Bettis' place? Right. McCutcheon may not be worth the money, but ethically, the team got a bargain and way more than they paid for already. He loves it here and is a good guy. Do the right thing for once. Go Bucs!
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Re: Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

Postby BamBam on Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:37 pm

All good points. But winning boils down to one real thing. Pitching! I would tather them spend on pitching than a bat. We have bats, they just aren't consistent. Which some of which I blame on constant lineup changes. Let them get comfortable hitting in a certain spot. Trust me it makes a difference.
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Re: Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

Postby Steelers69 on Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:54 pm

BamBam wrote:All good points. But winning boils down to one real thing. Pitching! I would tather them spend on pitching than a bat. We have bats, they just aren't consistent. Which some of which I blame on constant lineup changes. Let them get comfortable hitting in a certain spot. Trust me it makes a difference.

Our fucking BP sucked last year and every fucking time they brought in Hudson it was game over, just dump that mother fucker now and eat the 5.5 million he is due. Lock up Bell now and I agree with signing Cutch to a long term deal. He already took one for the team and now pay up and pay him back and make him retire a Pirate. Him and his wife just had a kid and he loves this city. I would trade Cole to Yankees and make them take back Nova in the deal. Look how can every other team bring kids up after a few season in minors and we take our time with kids and when we do bring them up they are not that good, Polanco and Marte might both be busts, Marte was on Roids and explains for his good year and he looked way out of it when he came back from suspension. Only good kid they have had was Bell that kid will be a stud and that was a fluke we got him in the draft. They could have drafted Harper and he would still be in the minors in our system :lol: Look what Houston and the Cubs and Yankees did brought up all the young studs and built around them
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Re: Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

Postby BamBam on Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:31 pm

I think callin Polanco and Marte a possible bust is very premature. No one looks good after being laid off for 80 games.
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Re: Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

Postby Felix Leiter on Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:10 pm

ESPN says the Pirates are in talks with the Giants about McCutcheon no word about who we would get in return. Stay tuned.
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Re: Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

Postby Steelers69 on Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:36 pm

Felix Leiter wrote:ESPN says the Pirates are in talks with the Giants about McCutcheon no word about who we would get in return. Stay tuned.

If they do this Fans need to stay the fuck out of that Park and let him lose money, I'm sick of his shit I really HATE that Mother Fucker and wish him DEATH and a slow death at that.
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Re: Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

Postby BamBam on Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:51 pm

Steelers69 wrote:
Felix Leiter wrote:ESPN says the Pirates are in talks with the Giants about McCutcheon no word about who we would get in return. Stay tuned.

If they do this Fans need to stay the fuck out of that Park and let him lose money, I'm sick of his shit I really HATE that Mother Fucker and wish him DEATH and a slow death at that.


Damn I love the Bucs too but death and baseball? Eh I don't know. Is that even allowed? Its doesnt have the same feeling as hotdogs and beer. I agree Nutting gets to me too. This team making a miraculous post season run will not be based off Cutch. I wouldnt trade him either tho.
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Re: Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

Postby billy guns on Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:00 pm

Steelers69 wrote:
Felix Leiter wrote:ESPN says the Pirates are in talks with the Giants about McCutcheon no word about who we would get in return. Stay tuned.

If they do this Fans need to stay the fuck out of that Park and let him lose money, I'm sick of his shit I really HATE that Mother Fucker and wish him DEATH and a slow death at that.

So u want to pay him $15 million a year ?
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Re: Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

Postby Felix Leiter on Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:25 pm

He's gone after this season I would definitely listen to offers but if the offer isn't enough don't do it.
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Re: Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

Postby billy guns on Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:29 pm

Felix Leiter wrote:He's gone after this season I would definitely listen to offers but if the offer isn't enough don't do it.

I agree same with Cole
The GM wanted yanks top prospect for him
Although I would’ve taken Adam Frazier
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Re: Thoughts on your 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates

Postby Steelers69 on Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:45 pm

Hell 15 million is a FUCKING STEAL Billy your the FUCKING REASON that FUCK doesn't spend the money, you are the White Knight that comes to his rescue every time someone says something bad about that Mother Fucker. You deserve to NEVER SEE Another winning season in your life time. Fuck You and your Owner. I'm sick of you Nutting Apologist your the main reason he does what he does and you come to his rescue every FUCKING Move. I would Love to see Huntington and Nutting driving Drunk and wreck the car over a bank and they freeze to death and no one knows where the car crashed at and there cell phones are just out of reach then are inches away from making a call. Then a Truck carrying Acid in a barrel falls off of truck and rolls down over hill and splashes all over them both.
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